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Podcasters often hear people spill all kinds of secrets, from their most terrifying nightmares to their divisive political opinions. One information, however, that some visitors would never reveal is the fact that they pay thousands of dollars only to be interviewed on the program.
We have entered the heyday of pay-per-play podcasting, where guests are willing to pay generously to appear on a full episode. In return, the host receives some income, has more programming options, and may land a potential advertiser.
It can be difficult to pinpoint the precise extent of the practice. In an hour-long conversation, disclosures may only last a few brief seconds, and different hosts use different terminology to convey the nature of such interactions. It's also hard to estimate what proportion of shows take money in exchange for airtime. It appears the practice is particularly well-liked among podcasts in the wellness, bitcoin, and business fields, according to almost a dozen interviews with industry sources.
This marriage of convenience shouldn't come as a complete surprise in an age where social media influencers frequently receive payment for mentioning a brand in an Instagram post or YouTube video. However, not everybody agrees that it is a good idea. According to media attorney Craig Delsack, who practices in New York, "as someone who's making money for that type of advertorial work, it should be reported." It just makes for good practice and fosters rapport with the podcaster. The Wild West isn't possible.
US officials concur that if customers don't realize a media mention only happened in exchange for payment, they may be mislead. According to a Federal Trade Commission spokeswoman, the organization is unable to comment on particular circumstances for this article. However, the spokesperson for the FTC states that this is their general advice: "Regardless of the medium through which an advertisement or promotional message is disseminated, deception occurs when consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances are misled about its nature or source, and such misleading impression is likely to affect their decisions or conduct regarding the advertised product or the advertising."
However, it seems that the phenomenon is flourishing in podcasting. More than $1 million has been raised by the online platform Guestio to create a marketplace just for the brokerage of paid guests. appearances. The creator and CEO of Guestio, Travis Chappell, notes that individuals frequently hire public relations companies to suggest them as potential speakers on podcasts. He thinks it would be wiser for them to pay the podcaster directly.
He explains, "I was beginning to realize that this podcaster is working their tails off to establish this audience, and then this agency earns money by charging this client for the booking. The individual who invested the time to first grow the audience is the only one who doesn't gain money.
On Guestio, the money sometimes flows in the opposite direction, and a podcaster will pay to secure a highly desired guest, like boxer Manny Pacquiao, who demands $15,000 for an appearance. Chappell claims that even while many of the shows Guestio collaborates on inform listeners about fees, his platform "could do a better job of having a script."
Chappell claims that since 2020, Guestio has paid out over $300,000 to podcasters and guests. Four podcasters on the site have earned more than $20,000 from appearance fees in the past six months alone, including one who earned $50,000. Chappell proposes podcasters charge $100 to $150 per thousand listeners of their broadcast, despite the fact that he hasn't established a standard price.
Entrepreneurs on Fire, a daily program that features diverse firms, earns the most money. Its presenter and creator, John Lee Dumas, claims that he mostly receives guest enquiries through his website and that his current fee for an appearance is $3,500. Payment acts as a sort of screening mechanism.
People were prepared to participate once they had been accepted by us and had invested in being on the show, according to Dumas. They prepared for the interview, kind of. They arrived on schedule. They provided enormous value. For my audience, they had fantastic giveaways and calls to action.
At the conclusion of each episode, he makes disclosures about sponsor money by writing: "Today's value bomb material was brought to you by..." He doesn't always request payment. For some visitors, such as entrepreneur Tony Robbins, Dumas instead receives a cut of any sales made via his affiliate link. In June, Dumas earned $146,418 in sponsorship income, of which he believes 20 to 30 percent came from guest fees, according to his publicly available monthly income report.
The appearance fees, in his opinion, are merely an additional, excellent source of income that is good to have rather than essential.
The cost can easily mount for visitors who participate on many shows. The benefits, though, may be worthwhile. Nick Unsworth, a business coach and the CEO of Life on Fire, claimed to have paid Dumas' show $35,000 for two appearances and 12 weeks of advertisements. Unsworth was one of Dumas' guests. He ultimately generated $150,000 in revenue by turning free podcast listeners into buyers of his business courses.
Other podcasters boast that their paying guests give them favorable feedback and provide examples about how appearing on their shows resulted in bestseller books, increased sales, and free appearances in other media.
Unsworth claims, "When you're the guest, you're the star." "You have no barriers if you can be in that position and make your offer. Nobody is watching that episode of the show believing it to be a commercial. There is an instantaneous feeling of trust and respect for you.
Nevertheless, some PR experts advise against it to their clients. According to Jon Bier, CEO and founder of the public relations firm Jack Taylor, "It's a gray area, but it's payola." "I'm getting into the exact antithesis of what I believe in, which is curation, originality, and honesty, if I play that game."
Potential guests who have a product to promote frequently view podcasting as a golden ticket—an unfiltered platform through which to reach listeners for prolonged periods of time—even if their agencies don't approve it. At the high end of the market, where shows charge tens of thousands of dollars for an appearance and access to hundreds of thousands of listeners, this is particularly alluring.
Paid appearances have value, according to Michael Bosstick, CEO of Dear Media, an Austin-based podcasting startup that largely targets female listeners. The company charges $20,000 to $40,000 per interview for The Skinny Confidential Him and Her Podcast, a well-known lifestyle program he co-hosts with his wife, Lauryn Evarts Bosstick, or whatever it costs to buy out their ad inventory. The show, according to him, has between 250,000 and 350,000 listeners each episode.The show, according to him, has between 250,000 and 350,000 listeners per episode.
He adds that not just anyone with money is allowed to be a guest at Dear Media. He claims that in order to get noticed, a person or organization must be interesting and pertinent to the target market. Bosstick estimates that sponsored episodes make up only 1% to 3% of Dear Media's total programming. The only thing that matters is that your brand is being highlighted, he adds, adding that there are no talking points and no opportunities for questions to be submitted.
He claims that among the list of people who paid to be there are Robert Slovak, the co-founder of Water and Wellness, the business behind a $499 reverse osmosis system, and Chervin Jafarieh, the CEO of wellness company Cymbiotika, which sells goods like a $130 shower head filter. Emails asking comment from Cymbiotika and Water and Wellness received no response.
Lauryn Evarts Bosstick exclaimed, "I know, after this event, I will never in my life forget my minerals every morning," before speaking with a Slovak in July. "The significance of minerals is going to astound you all. My father is now on them. I told my sisters and my brother about them. Everyone in my family is on a mineral regimen.
The Skinny Confidential listeners would not have known that Michael and Lauryn were being compensated by Slovak and Jafarieh for such ringing recommendations in the past. Following a request for response from Bloomberg in July, Michael recorded disclosures and incorporated them into the previous episodes.
The Human Upgrade presenter Dave Asprey says that his biohacking podcast, which he claims receives millions of monthly downloads, charges guests an average of $50,000 to appear on it. He claims that only 1% of programs include paid guests and that he declines several proposals from other people. He informs viewers at the conclusion of each episode that the podcast "may contain paid endorsements and ads for products and services," and that those who appear on it "may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein."
According to Asprey, appearance fees are only justified in specific situations. "It must be a strange convergence of a real expert doing something novel and fascinating. I would accept as many as I could that satisfy my requirements.
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